*Gucci Note: I don't ever ask this of you, but I'm asking it now. Please share this on facebook, twitter, your own blogs, or whatever social media you use. We need to reach out in support of one another and hopefully help women who find themselves in abusive situations.
I just read something that made me physically ill. I literally had to step outside, take deep breaths of fresh air in hopes of quelling the very real urge to vomit. Unfortunately, I was not successful.
Sometimes things affect me so deeply I have a physical reaction. This is one of those things. I don't know how to move on from it, yet I must because I am completely powerless to do anything. I don't even know the women involved; indeed I've never heard of them or this "lifestyle" before tonight.
I came across a blog called "Christian DD Group Advice". "DD" stands for "domestic discipline". It would seem that these women "agree" to be "disciplined" by their husbands when they "misbehave". They speak of being spanked by their husbands with hands and paddles. They speak of being "grounded". They speak of having to "write lines" which I imagine is reminiscent of "I will not chew gum in class" sixty times on the chalk board after school.
The blog is old; I don't see that it's been updated since 2008, but I suspect that unfortunately doesn't mean the "domestic discipline" has stopped. One of the posts discussed how a woman's husband "grounded her from the computer", so perhaps that's why there's no recent updates? Or perhaps the "domestic discipline" escalated and the poor woman was maimed, murdered, or (hopefully) finally able to find help and get out of the situation.
In any case, this seems to be something that happens more often than most of us probably realize. I'm not sure I have the right words to articulate how much I am disgusted to my very core at the idea that a wife, a grown woman, should be subjected to "punishment" from her husband as if she is a child.
In an article entitled "Learning to Spank", the author who identifies himself as "Brent" and does not provide a last name, says things like, "A husband who enters a DD relationship must be willing to talk to his wife not just about discipline, but about her need to be spanked, what spanking does for her and how she needs it to occur to feel safe, secure, cherished and led." He goes on to say, "...a woman’s bottom, I believe, was created not only as an enticement to men but as a target for his hand when she disobeys."
The part that made me ill (well, more ill than I already was) was when Brent said,
Though I highly doubt anyone trapped in such a humiliating, degrading "marriage" would be "allowed" to read this blog, if you find yourself in this situation, seek help immediately. Do not allow yourself or your children to be victims of an abuser because let there be no doubt, this is abuse.
I have endured the rule of a very controlling, manipulative, abusive father. I have experience with abusive relationships. They eat at you, picking away at your heart and soul until there is nothing left but a shadow of your former self. No one, no man, woman, or child deserves to be treated as "less than" (though I doubt there are many woman dominated DD "marriages").
It is one thing to "submit" to your husband as you feel called by your Christian faith. I understand that. I don't agree with it anymore as I once did, but I understand that many conservative households, Christian or otherwise, see the husband being the "head" of the household.
However.
That's a BIG "however".
There is no justification in any Christian text or teaching for control and abuse. Indeed, God calls men to cherish, honor, and love their wives as Christ loves the Church.
Beloved women, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Atheist, or Alien, please please please hear my words. You do NOT deserve to be in a position of degrading submission to any man. You are not less than him, weaker than him, or in need of being "guided" by him. You are strong. You are brilliant. You are beautiful. You are capable of incredible things. Do not sell yourselves short. Do not allow your self worth to be determined by a small man who exerts physical and mental control over you.
I have been there and I know how difficult it is to break the cycle. But I also know it can be done. I know that you can do it.
If you are a victim of domestic violence, even if the abuse has not yet escalated to anything of a physical nature (emotional abuse and control IS abusive behavior) DO NOT WAIT. Please, contact the National Domestic Violence hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE or visit their website for help.
I just read something that made me physically ill. I literally had to step outside, take deep breaths of fresh air in hopes of quelling the very real urge to vomit. Unfortunately, I was not successful.
Sometimes things affect me so deeply I have a physical reaction. This is one of those things. I don't know how to move on from it, yet I must because I am completely powerless to do anything. I don't even know the women involved; indeed I've never heard of them or this "lifestyle" before tonight.
I came across a blog called "Christian DD Group Advice". "DD" stands for "domestic discipline". It would seem that these women "agree" to be "disciplined" by their husbands when they "misbehave". They speak of being spanked by their husbands with hands and paddles. They speak of being "grounded". They speak of having to "write lines" which I imagine is reminiscent of "I will not chew gum in class" sixty times on the chalk board after school.
The blog is old; I don't see that it's been updated since 2008, but I suspect that unfortunately doesn't mean the "domestic discipline" has stopped. One of the posts discussed how a woman's husband "grounded her from the computer", so perhaps that's why there's no recent updates? Or perhaps the "domestic discipline" escalated and the poor woman was maimed, murdered, or (hopefully) finally able to find help and get out of the situation.
In any case, this seems to be something that happens more often than most of us probably realize. I'm not sure I have the right words to articulate how much I am disgusted to my very core at the idea that a wife, a grown woman, should be subjected to "punishment" from her husband as if she is a child.
In an article entitled "Learning to Spank", the author who identifies himself as "Brent" and does not provide a last name, says things like, "A husband who enters a DD relationship must be willing to talk to his wife not just about discipline, but about her need to be spanked, what spanking does for her and how she needs it to occur to feel safe, secure, cherished and led." He goes on to say, "...a woman’s bottom, I believe, was created not only as an enticement to men but as a target for his hand when she disobeys."
The part that made me ill (well, more ill than I already was) was when Brent said,
"Maintenance spankings, for those times when she is feeling tense and anxious, such as around the time of her monthly cycle, should be explored and discussed...Implementing spanking in its various forms helps ensure the success of a DD relationship because a regularly spanked woman who knows she can come to her man for a maintenance...spanking is less likely to act out to get one through discipline that she may end up regretting.
Though I highly doubt anyone trapped in such a humiliating, degrading "marriage" would be "allowed" to read this blog, if you find yourself in this situation, seek help immediately. Do not allow yourself or your children to be victims of an abuser because let there be no doubt, this is abuse.
I have endured the rule of a very controlling, manipulative, abusive father. I have experience with abusive relationships. They eat at you, picking away at your heart and soul until there is nothing left but a shadow of your former self. No one, no man, woman, or child deserves to be treated as "less than" (though I doubt there are many woman dominated DD "marriages").
It is one thing to "submit" to your husband as you feel called by your Christian faith. I understand that. I don't agree with it anymore as I once did, but I understand that many conservative households, Christian or otherwise, see the husband being the "head" of the household.
However.
That's a BIG "however".
There is no justification in any Christian text or teaching for control and abuse. Indeed, God calls men to cherish, honor, and love their wives as Christ loves the Church.
Beloved women, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Atheist, or Alien, please please please hear my words. You do NOT deserve to be in a position of degrading submission to any man. You are not less than him, weaker than him, or in need of being "guided" by him. You are strong. You are brilliant. You are beautiful. You are capable of incredible things. Do not sell yourselves short. Do not allow your self worth to be determined by a small man who exerts physical and mental control over you.
I have been there and I know how difficult it is to break the cycle. But I also know it can be done. I know that you can do it.
If you are a victim of domestic violence, even if the abuse has not yet escalated to anything of a physical nature (emotional abuse and control IS abusive behavior) DO NOT WAIT. Please, contact the National Domestic Violence hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE or visit their website for help.
74 People Love My Gucci:
Iused to belong to a site called Cafemom. You would be SHOCKED at HOW many women are in this lifestyle and think it is grand. I befriended one and was sickened at some of the things she told me, including a PUBLIC spanking on her bare bottom at a son's game. Girl I would have gone. the.fuck.off. NOwhere does God say that submission is to be rendered as you would correct a child. They operate on the chastening principle stating that God says we must be chastened when we are disobedient. That even God chastens us.. however I have yet to have a mark from one of those chastenings. I agree this is not a lifestyle it is abuse plain and simple. You wanna get kinky with the SDBM lifestyle hey whatever trips your trigger. Suggesting that it's God ordained.. ummm NOT
Exactly. These poor women are brainwashed. There's just no two ways about it. I'm still sick.
I think a man who hits a woman is nothing but a coward who bleeds yellow. Lower than dog puke. I don't care who calls it what, it is disgusting!
But with that said, to all those women out there who like to beat on their husbands, and sadly I know someone in my family in specific, if you hit a man then be prepared to be hit like a man. I have seen women in my life think that they can beat the crap out of their men just because a man can't hit them back. . .
I ran across one of these blogs about six months ago. I had a hard time not throwing up. I felt so, so sick. You are right; it's absolutely abuse. There is NO WAY God meant women to be degraded in this manner.
I believe my husband is the head of the household. And by that I mean I run any big decisions by him before I make them even when I know he's usually perfectly fine with whatever I choose. But that's actually just respect.
Marriage is a give and take. Partners. Equals. This DD...thing...is not that in any way.
Beckie - You're right. Abuse is never acceptable, no matter the sex of the perpetrator.
Awesome - You said it.
It is kinda scary how this woman just dropped out of sight after complaining about her marriage and abusive husband. I really hope nothing terrible happened to her :S
Me too. The comments are moderated, but I left one with my contact information just in case.
Sounds like a consensual fetish dressed up like religion. As long as it is consensual, and the women are submitting themselves to control willingly and happily, I have no problem with it. I knew a woman who was far more submissive in her relationships. She was strong and independent and everything fabulous, but she loved submitting wholly to her man, and that was her choice as a free woman.
Nothing wrong with being submissive as a free choice as a free woman, however, there is NO PLACE for physical or mental abuse. Being beaten with a paddle, "grounded", forced to "write lines" and sit in the corner is as abusive as it is unacceptable.
I have no problem with fetish spankings (no problem at all, ahem) but that's not what this is. This is "man knows best, woman needs "guidance"; if she doesn't follow the rules, she gets punished."
That's ridiculous and disgusting.
For example.
I just read where a woman was forced to wait in the corner, naked, for her husband to beat her about her ass and hips with a rod that left significant bruising for WEEKS.
Why?
She was dieting and she gained half a pound.
That doesn't sound like a fetish to me, or like something a woman would "choose". Whether or not she says it's a "choice", that kind of humiliating degradation is horrifying and is not a "choice"; it's a product of brainwashing or fear or both.
It's not marriage, it's a cult!! Horrible. Made you blog of the day. Hope it helps.
No real man would hit a woman, ever.
I think if one needs to hit his partner, he needs serious mental help.
I had a "talk" with a guy who was hitting a friend of mine once. It was not a pleasant discussion, but he never hit her again. The guy needed to know how it felt.
Of course, this is just one more reason I'm not a christian :(
Oh, Mac. This has nothing to do with being a Christian. One of the things that makes me sadder than anything is when people behave despicably while cloaking their behavior in Christianity. It makes me so sick that people behave like this, play the Jesus card, and then give the impression that *this* is what Christianity is.
It's sickening.
Wow that's a pretty messed up site Gucci. Don't get me wrong I totally get the whole spanking or bondage thing when it applies to sex, but that's something that is between two adults in agreement.
Once you start wrapping religion around it and calling it God's right and all that other crap then it's brainwashing and abuse plain and simple.
And frankly any man who hits a woman to exert control is a pathetic sad loser who deserves a good ass kicking which I would be more then happy to volunteer my services for.
LOL hun I read something once it was about Punishing his wife but in humiliating sexual positions gd if only I knew what it was called, but i was disgusted by that. Shed be punished and asked to just lay there in these humiliating positions naked, and act as if their husbands were their masters! um sorry I have a brain I couldnt do that its honestky ridiculous
Don't you just want to spank those abusive husbands so they can call you mama?
I do wonder who in the fuck "disciplines" the husbands when they "misbehave".
I'm so disgusted by this I can't even express it properly. I keep re reading what I wrote and thinking, no, I want to say it stronger than that! But I'm so fucking pissed off and sick to my stomach that I can't find the right words.
I canceled today's post and reposted for you instead. I totally agree this is an outrageous and repulsive practice. I could go on and on but there aren't words strong enough to voice this kind of disgust.
Thanks, babe!
It really opened my eyes when I learned that what I thought was verbal abuse was actually emotional abuse. Then everything kind of clicked into place. And does this type of discipline really exist? Perhaps I am naive. I fluxuate between thinking men like this just have zero self esteem and men are assholes. Probably both, huh?1
I have no problem with spanking in the bedroom in the name of fun. But basically giving your husband permission to abuse you is just sickening.
Ugh. OMG. Give me a break.
The world is different. Women don't stay with their husbands because they're afraid they'll starve to death. They're free to be as successful as they want, without care for gender or ethnicity.
In these types of situations, it's the *woman* who has the power. She chooses to stay. She chooses to submit. She doesn't have to.
And maybe, just maybe, she likes to be mofo spanked.
*gasp*
Sorry, but it can happen!
Welcome to the 21st century, now get out of my bedroom.
It really isn't that simple, Anon. Many of these women, probably most if not all of them, absolutely do depend on their husbands for financial security. Also, there is immense pressure within the fundamentalist/extremist religious mindset to stay married at any and all costs coupled with a very strong belief that the mean is the ultimate authority. There is a pretty significant degree of brainwashing going on.
When you pair those facts with the fact that it's damn hard to escape an abusive situation ANYWAY, it's a devastating situation that doesn't have any easy answers.
Women never choose to be abused.
You are confusing the S&M lifestyle with an abusive relationship. They are not one in the same. The entire lifestyle is based on mutual respect and empowerment.
Just because a girl (or a man!) likes to be spanked doesn't not predicate that the individual is unable to support their self financially.
This has absolutely nothing to do with a sexual fetish. If you read through the comments, I stated that there is clearly no problem with consensual sexual activity.
This is about discipline. These women are spanked, grounded, and punished like children. They have rules that must be obeyed or they're beaten until they're bloodied and bruised and humiliated.
The reason I bring up finances is because it's one of the reasons these women feel have no place to go/no options should they try to leave.
This is not a lifestyle choice. This is a man exerting his physical, emotional, and spiritual will over his wife in a situation that is out of her control.
A woman being beaten with a paddle for over an hour and made to stand naked in the corner facing the wall as she cries from the pain and then is sat down at the table to "write lines" about how she will obey her husband in all things because she gained 1/2 a pound (a story from a DD blog written by the husband doing the punishing) is abused. There is no gray area here. She does not have the choice to say no or the beatings/punishments will get more severe.
Abuse escalates, as studies have continually shown and as I know from personal experience. How long before the paddle is ineffective to "correct the wife's behavior" and more serious pain is required? Fists? Belts? Electric shocks? Gas stoves? Holding her head under water? The bitch has to learn her lesson after all, right?
Gucci - like I said, there's nothing wrong with S&M if both parties agree. I don't understand why Anon thinks you're confusing that with this lifestyle. I don't see any kinds of mutual respect is a DD relationship.
And if Anon is going to try and defend his (I assume) views, he could at least not use the big words to cover his grammatical errors.
oh my. Ridiculous.
You should submit to no one except yourself.
*sigh*
I will tweet this out to others.
Because people should know that there is help.
I can see now why you are sick.
Anon, come out come out wherever you are. Hiding behind the Anon so no one knows who you are. You sicken me.
The thing that is scaring me more is if this is going on with the wife, how is he treating the children.
Sexual fantasy roll playing is one thing. Being spanked in public is another. It's abuse. Pure and simple.
I fear for the children too. Very very much. I fear what abuse they're subjected to and I fear what they're learning about how to treat their future wives or how they should be treated as future wives.
Anon just doesn't get it because he doesn't want to get it. This is NOT about a sexual fetish (which I have no problem with. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy a little of this in the bedroom). HOW FUCKING EVER, this is not about sex. This is about abuse and control. It has NOTHING to do with sex.
From Elizabeth Black on my facebook fan page since she can't comment here from work -
"It won't let me comment on your blog, I think it's a work machine limitation. But WTHeck? Seriously? This is NOT Christian behavior. This is abuse. I know the Bible, and no where does it say to spare the rod and spoil the wife. A Husb...and is supposed to Love his wife and take a hurt himself before hurting his wife. Just like Jesus did. Jesus never beat anyone, ever. He took unimaginable beatings to protect us from the wages of sin. And even though he had the power to he did not lash out, he only prayed for God to forgive them.
This has nothing to do with a sexual fetish. It's not that kind of spanking. Man. I.don't.get.it. It makes me so sad what is done in the name of what was supposed to be the most beautiful, loving and peaceful religion that ever existed. :("
S&M is NOT strictly sexual.
I am a woman.
My husband does not beat children.
He doesn't drink or do drugs. Ever.
He's never been arrested.
In fact, he has a very prominent career. As do I.
You women are creating stereotypes that I'm supposed to conform to and it's as ridiculous as your beliefs.
Well, if it's "ridiculous" to believe that beating a woman is wrong, that putting her in a second class, subservient position and punishing her like a child is wrong, then COLOR ME RIDICULOUS.
I do apologize we assumed you were a man. That is a conclusion we perhaps should not have jumped to and yet you must realize that a woman defending an abusive practice is pretty hard to imagine.
If you are in this situation, please seek help. This is NOT Biblical, this is NOT condoned by God, and THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. This is abuse. It is not a fetish. It is not a lifestyle. It's not a choice. It's coerced through brainwashing, threat (and action) of force, and fear. "Choosing" something under duress is not true choice.
If someone had a gun to my head and said they'd shoot me if I didn't give them my purse, the action of actually giving them my purse would not be my "choice", it would be my only option for survival.
This compares.
I know because I've been there. Not in a "DD" relationship, but definitely in an abusive situation.
There is no excuse for a man to raise his hand to a woman or child ever. I'm THRILLED to hear your children are never abused, but if you are in this type of situation, I am still paralyzed with fear for them about what they're learning by watching the abuse take place and how it is affecting their delicate psyches. I don't necessarily mean physically witnessing the beatings, but seeing their effects.
I am not judging you, trying to fit you into a mold, or creating a stereotype. I am genuinely concerned for your well being if you are in an abusive situation and if you're not, I'm concerned that as a woman, as a human, you could condone such a thing.
It makes me so very sad when people justify despicable acts by warping the Word of God to suit their purposes. Doing so is why so many people turn away from faith.
God did NOT mean "abuse and control" when he said "submit".
But Anon. You must realize it isn't right because you are hiding behind the "Anon". If you are so proud of it, you should be proud to be recognized for who you really are.
You are being controlled and abused. You have just been in the situation too long to not realize it.
I feel sorry for you. I also don't think God would ever treat anyone like your husband is treating you. Just remember, scriptures are just the writing and interpratations of MEN. Nothing more, nothing less.
I was in a verbally abusive relationship in college and it took me a while to wake up and realize what I was experiencing had nothing to do with love and everything to do with control and domination. I finally got to a point where "lonely" was much more desirable. Coming out of that bad experience taught me a lot. I am now in an incredible marriage with a wonderful man who meets all my needs. We have been together for 20 years. (Married for 14.) I wish all women could find a way out of bad relationships and find their true worth. I was one of the lucky ones....
I'm trying to understand a little bit of Anonymous here. Are you, Anonymous, part of this DD thing? I know where we all stand on abuse, but if someone wants it and they are not harming their children, shouldn't we back away from it? This is certainly not a lifestyle choice for me, but if this is what makes your marriage work, we can only shake our heads and save the judgement for ourselves. One thing we are all forgetting is that we are not to judge others. I submit to my husband as he is the head of my household. Christians, Jews, Muslims, it really is that common. It just depends on how far you go with your submissions. And once you feel that you don't want to but yet are forced to, then it becomes abuse. However, I get a lot of crap about how and what I do for my husband and it isn't even that weird. So I feel for anonymous. I choose to ask permission for the things that I do, buy, use, whatever. I want to do that. And in return my husband has started doing it too. It's a respect thing. I choose to stay hoe and care for my children and husband and do whatever he asks of me, because I want to. I think that has gone down the drain these days. Power to the women and all, but when women begin acting as men and taking the role, I think that demoralizes a man and helps contribute to failing marriages. IN MY OPINION! So us women who are staying home and doing what I do are considered abused or "weird". If you S&M in the bedroom, why is it ok for that but not okay to want this submission technique? You are willing to take it and ask for more, all power to you. We need to remember that if two adults are saying yes, there is nothing wrong with that. We can't play government and get involved in everyone's affairs just because it doesn't work for us. I'm not siding with anyone here I just want us all to step back and take a breath. Abuse is wrong, immorally and in every other way. It should never be put up with or defended. This certain way of life, however weird and not for us, is for others and we have to respect them and their ways of life. Do they not respect ours?
I hope this came out right, I'm rushing out to get my son from daycare..
It came out right, Beckie, but there is no true choice involved when there is coercion and threat of force. And brainwashing.
From Elizabeth Black, again left on my facebook fan page because she can't comment here from work -
"Gucci, just ask anon for me to show me where in the Bible it says Christ beat the church? Where in the Bible does Jesus beat or hurt anyone? Any where. If Jesus did not beat or hurt anyone a husband should not beat or hurt his wife. Sim...ple. Plain and simple. Submission is a completely different concept than this.
In a family there has to be someone who makes the ultimate decision. Two people cannot agree on everything. I submit to my husband (mostly) but he would die rather than hurt me. He would literally take a bullet for me. This is how a Christian husband treats his wife. This is how Jesus treated us all. And this is why I submit to both my husband and Jesus."
*headdesk*
*headdesk* ?? THAT'S your respons, anon?? We are begging to understand. Because, clearly, we do not understand.
Gucci, I honestly thought you were being dramatic about feeling ill when reading about this. With my stomache churning and my eyes burning, I see you are NOT being even a little dramatic. Dammit. What sick bastard dreamed this up, then put it out there? It's beyond sick and wrong.
Beckie, what I meant to say before my mom called and I hit "publish" instead of "save" is that what you describe is very very different than a DD relationship.
What you describe is a lifestyle choice that obviously works for you and for a lot of marriages. There's nothing wrong with that because your husband does not take advantage of you, your willingness to submit to him in the context you describe, or the fact that doing so, even voluntarily, makes you vulnerable to him. These are good things.
In one first hand account (I read well over a hundred last night; I barely slept) I read of a woman being beaten with a paddle so intensely that she was bruised and could not sit comfortably for days. The beating lasted over an hour. Why? She left the garage door open.
Another story (I think it was the garage door woman but I don't remember) talked of how her husband would become sexually aroused by beating her to the point of bruises and tears, and would then force her to satisfy his sexual arousal immediately after the beating.
Does that sound consensual? Does that sound like Biblical submission? Does that sound anything like a choice?
I think anyone who's visited this blog more than once knows I'm VERY traditional and conservative. NOTHING about this is a feminist thing (gag) or a liberal thing or a "woman power" thing. I don't subscribe to any of that nonsense.
HOWEVER, I absolutely do not condone abuse in any way shape or form and we can make no mistake, THIS IS ABUSE.
Women are more than vessels with which to carry children, hands with which to serve their husbands, and asses for their husbands to beat when they "misbehave". Marriage is a partnership of equals with different strengths and weaknesses, not a modified parent/child model where the husband is the ultimate authority and the wife is the servant of his every need, whim, and rule.
Women were already raised by their parents, they don't need a husband to continue a job that's already been completed.
This is the first I've heard of this, at first I thought fetish maybe but then read through the comments. I fully agree sexual exploration is one thing, treating your wife like a child who needs punishing is absolutely awful.
I actually met a girl like this on Friday. She seemed perfectly normal but then I saw she had to ask her husband for everything. To get up, to change position, to get another drink...wow! I asked her if she was happy and she replied yes.
I agree this type of behavior is cult like. There is a difference in a sexual spanking and abuse.
Thanks for posting this chica! Ya got balls!
Being a Christian myself, I have never been taught these things. That is the craziest thing I've ever heard, and to think that these women allow themselves to be subject to this is crazy! God gives us 2 reasons, and only 2 reasons, to end a marriage with our spouse and that's 1) if he/she is unfaithful and 2)abuse. The situation you described, is abuse. No one should ever have to endure abuse.
I cannot imagine allowing my husband to discipline me like I was a child. Where is the relationship there? Sounds like a bunch of power hungry, controlling men, who brainwash these women into thinking that what they're doing is right.
Bull. Crap.
OK. I'm out of the loop. I have never heard of this group. Wow- is all I can say. Someone of very low self esteem I would think would condone such a thing. And in my Christian beliefs...and church...never would this be accepted. As My Stomach Turns...is about how I feel about these types of folks. Scary
I heard about this group a long time ago and as a Christian, and raised as one, I know that this is NOT a proper Christian marriage, at all. In fact it reminds me more of those with whom I went to the churches of and the schools of. Those I would call "Pharisees" who take things to the extreme. My dad is one such person, and though he never did this with my mother, he was not short on the abuse (of any form) either. I am still discovering how deep the abuse goes.
This is horrible and so wrong. Good for you for speaking up about it.
I see your point, Gucci. I tend to lump all the religio-nutz together sometimes. Still, they are USING christianity, much like so many in the past did to subjugate anyone they could.
To anon and any other woman who thinks this is about S&M;
Domestic Discipline is not the same as smacking your girls hot ass 'cause it looks sexy when it's glowing red. It's not like taking a big bite out of their flesh because you just have to taste them.
NO !
This shit GM has written about here is about nothing but control and violence. I have to believe there's a bit of brainwashing involved for you ladies to not see this.
Break Free ! The world is full of decent guys sho won't beat you, claiming they love you the whole while.
Sometimes you gotta crack a few eggs to make an omlette
I've never heard of Domestic Discipline before, but it sounds a lot like a sadist-masochist or master-slave type of relationship.
What people don't realize is that the real power in such a relationship lies with the masochist or the slave, they have the ability to stop it at any time.
I have an online friend, she's a submissive masochist. She's set up gang-bangs for herself, 20+ men, to use and abuse her for hours at a time. I don't understand the appeal of it in the least, but I do know that she likes the power exchange and gets off on it. Sometimes she'll be bruised for days afterward. I also know that the moment she utters the "safe word" that it all stops and that she's never actually at risk of real harm.
Assuming, and I most certainly could be wrong, but assuming the women in these Domestic Discipline relationships have the same ability to stop it all, who are we to judge? Now if the woman DOESN'T have the ability to stop it, then I agree with you, it's abusive.
Just because we're ignorant of the intricacies of a power-exchange relationship like this doesn't make it wrong.
Damn, forgot to subscribe to comments
Im in this "lifestyle" and there is no safe word. Just the trust that my husband would never hurt me or beat me. There is a thin line between discipline and abuse. My husband never crosses the line.
Unlike the Slave Master lifestyle, my husband doesn't spank me or discipline me for his pleasure, but to teach me to be a better person. He never leaves a mark or spanks me til I'm red and swollen.
It's all mild and at any time I don't like this lifestyle, I can voice my opinion and we will talk about were our relationship should go.
My husband is a gentle, loving man. We always saw this lifestyle as more of a tradition life, more like how the 60s or whatever were.
Feel Free to email me if you want to know more, but please don't email me and attack me and say I'm being abused and brainwashed. I'm a big girl and now what I want in my life.
Don't just judge me or our lifestyle cause you don't agree with it. Be open minded and learn, maybe it's not for you and thats fine, but it's perfect for me.
Email: Reinacake@gmail.com
I agree with Hubman. While a TPE relationship isn't my cup of tea, and CAN look like abuse to outsiders...it's not.
Abuse and a TPE BDSM relationship are two very different things. A submissive woman might not like every single disciplinary thing her husband/master does, but it's the overall dynamic that they BOTH want and like.
That this site is cloaking it as a Christian thing and not a BDSM thing is what bothers me, personally.
Bottom line is this: You are an outsider. You are making assumptions. You are judging a situation that you've never been in, cannot fathom, and don't have any experience with.
Are there some douchey men masquerading as Dominants and turning what should be Safe, Sane and Consensual into abuse? Yes. But don't any of you dare assume what exactly is going on. A real man never hits a woman IN ANGER. A real man never hits a woman WITHOUT HER CONSENT. For me? A real man hits me how and where we've agreed upon and I love it. You don't? Fine. But the judgey mcjudgerson comments here against BDSM relationships that are consensual are sad and uninformed.
Fascinating.
I can see how this would raise eyebrows. But indeed, DD is not the same as abuse and can indeed be practiced in a way that is respectful and loving. It's just that it might not look all that respectful and loving to an outside pair of eyes.
Now, of course, spousal abuse is a very hot button topic, and rightfully so. Mix in a little religion and clearly very passionate opinions start to crop up.
It just seems to me that most of the commentors on here would have the stance that they could never believe domestic discipline is non-absusive. Unfortunately, that kind of thinking leaves no room for "putting yourself in someone else's shoes", and basically results in completely closed off thinking.
So instead of responding on instinct and personal bias, why not try this out instead: imagine a loving couple who likes to play a game in the bedroom. Doesn't matter what it is, just that they both like doing it, so much so that it eventually spills out into their private day to day life. They keep it to their interactions with each other and play it only in private.
Why can't that game be "domestic discipline".
Food for thought.
Social awareness means applying proper empathy to the situations around you to interpret them properly. Immediately deciding domestic discipline is abuse? Irresponsible. Failing to acknowledge that domestic discipline could be "hiding" abuse? Also irresponsible.
In short, use your brain not your knee jerk reflexes.
I absolutely believe this type of behavior is cult-ish. And, anything cult-ish is disgusting, in my opinion.
And, anything cult-ish is disgusting, in my opinion.(Dawn)
I guess if it gets big enough it will no longer be cult-ish. Just look at Christianity and all the other Monotheistic Patriarchal religions.
I'm absolutely not debating the religious aspect of any of this; that's not the intent nor is it the point.
As far as it being "consensual"; I have my doubts. When a man who is, by his very nature, almost always physically stronger, bigger, and more imposing than a woman and a woman has been taught/subjected to a lifestyle in which she feels she not only must be degradingly subservient to her father and then her husband, but when the "choice" is given with threat of physical altercation behind it, that is called a false choice.
Are there people who practice this in a way that's totally consensual and they can stop anytime one of them says "stop"? Sure. I don't doubt that. But I suspect they are very few and far between and the potential for this situation to escalate into abuse is astronomical. Everything I read last night about it, every website advocating this practice, every "instruction" on how to keep a wife firmly under a husband's control and how to restrain her if she resists a beating or new and creative ways to "punish" her if she continues to "misbehave" all smack of abuse.
The way women are viewed, as second class citizens, as needing the "instruction and guidance" of their husbands, as having the mental capacity, self control, and willpower of a small child who needs to be controlled by a parental figure is disgusting. It's not about a fetish or "fun in the bedroom", which for the nine hundred thousandth time I'll say is none of my business. It's about control and absolute power, and when there the husband perceives a loss of control, the wife is humiliated, degraded, and beaten; that is abusive.
The fact that there might be an occasional couple who truly subscribe to the notion that a woman needs to be treated like a small child by her husband does not mean that many, many women in this "lifestyle" are trapped in it because they are firmly under the control of an abuser.
There is no justification in any Christian text or teaching for control and abuse.(Mama)
You need to read your bible Gucci
Numbers
15And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
New Testament, Titty. I should have specified New Testament.
Maybe those people are reading the WHOLE bible. Maybe you should just focus on the fact that its just abusive people rather than thinking it is or isnt based on religion. Because its pretty clear it is based on some nasty cultish shit.
Well, the reason I included religion initially is because these people identify themselves as Christians, which I find very sad because people from outside the faith see this and paint all Christians with the whackjob brush. They look at this example and think, why in the WORLD would I want to be a part of that?. It's no different than the perception that all Mormons are polygamist fundamentalists or all Muslims are terrorists. I find that annoying and very saddening.
But yes, the religious aspect of this is largely irrelevant. The fact that it's demeaning and abusive and horribly wrong and disgusting is really the heart of this issue.
The saddest part is that at one time these people were children and someone taught them to be this way. Both a MALE and a FEMALE.
This poem from south pacific pretty much sums up how people learn nasty shit.
You’ve got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You’ve got to be taught
From year to year,
It’s got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff’rent shade,
You’ve got to be carefully taught.
You’ve got to be taught before it’s too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You’ve got to be carefully taught!
Absolutely. Sadder yet that a whole new generation is being raised under the same awful mindset.
Sheesh, Titty, it's kind of fun when we agree!
My Momma taught me well. ;)
I honestly don't know why this became such a big battle over lifestyles. Gucci and others have made it perfectly clear that YES, these relationship CAB exist among consenting adults.
I for one do not understand how you can be certain there is mutual consent. If you walk into the ladies room and see a woman crying with a black eye, do you automatically assume she consented to getting punched in the face? The people who are automatically defending the 'lifestyle' without any thought or question are the same type of people who turn up the TV to drown out the woman being beat across the hall... (because she probably consented!).
Frankly, if that offended you, you deserve it. It's one thing to accept that some people choose to live lifestyles we may not understand. It is another entirely to automatically defend every alternate lifestyle. And it is utterly disgusting that one would get in a debate about whether a person should speak out on a matter they were concerned might be abusive!
You might think we should all live by the 'mind your own business' mantra, but I remind you that's the exact same state of mind that has left thousands of women feeling like there is no way out of a truly abusive situation.
I fully support your decision to live in a way that I do not understand. I fully support you urge to defend those who might be misunderstood. But I DO NOT support anyone who thinks it's wrong to question if this is abuse. That question might save someone's life!
these relationship CAN exist among consenting adults
Excuse my typo.
PWT- WELL SAID!!! I think you summed the whole thing up, so I am not even going to post my original comment :)
me toooooo
There is not a single scenario that I can think of where this would ever be okay in my home. Ever.
I have four sons. I don't think that I could sit there and ever even try to justify this kind of behavior from their father. Because, it's wrong. I'm sorry. It just is. There hasn't been a single post from the opposing side where I've though, "oh, okay, totally makes sense." I cringe at the thought of my sweet boys ever inflicting that on their wives.
I'm all for fetishes and kinky sex and leaving what goes on in the bedroom private. But there is something entirely backwards about punishment in that form, and especially when it comes from your spouse.
Total head-scratcher for me...
That isn't a relationship and isn't representative of Christianity or a follower of Jesus, that is pure unadulterated disfunction. For that site to even associate itself with the concept of a religious practice is not only offensive but is heresy.
Groups like this live on the fringe of religious practice and quite possibly the fringes of society. Simply reading the comments and the feedback from the poster indicates spiritual tension. They have taken a draconian backwards spiritual interpretation from the 18th century or later and brought it into current day. It's no less reprehensible than if society started burning witches at the stake again.
Regardless of how it's defined it is in no way a symbol of a loving healthy relationship between a man and woman as deemed by God.
As a man it thoroughly disgusts me.
Big Fat Gini--
I have 3 sons and a daughter and I'm not sure which bothers me more, for the boys to disrespect a woman that way or for my daughter to believe this is an acceptable way to be treated.
I can't imagine how a Mother could expect her sons to respect her authority, if their father is disciplining her.
It is really about respect. A woman respecting her self and her husband respecting her. Children must be raised in a home where they respect their parents. 50 or 60 years ago, this might have been okay. These days with women occupying every conceivable career from preacher to Secretary of State to police officer how can anyone in good conscience raise a child who learns that women are less adult than their husbands?
Wow. That's some of the craziest shit I've ever read! People are effing crazy!!
It bothers me that you began by talking about abusive relationships and then immediately leaped to encouraging women, and only women, to get out of such relationships. The fact that men are the victims of abuse at least one third of the time is well established, yet they cannot get help from the hotline you listed. They cannot get help from 99 percent of the taxpayer funded programs available even though under the law those programs are not legally allowed to discriminate. They do anyway. No one deserves to be abused by the one they love. And that includes men.
you mentioned in one of the comments above, nothing makes you madder then people using Christianity as a cloak for bad behavior (not exactly your words, but too lazy to scroll back up) and I agree so much, it's so difficult when I hear things like this, it so gives Christians a bad name...someone comes across a blog like that, then looks at ME differently because I too am a Christian...ugh! (Like any one who knows me is going to believe I would let someone treat me in such a way!). It sounds like some people with dominate/submissive tendencies who don't want to seem deviant and use Christian discipline as an excuse to behave in such a way.
I do hope the women who find themselves in these situations get out and learn true love.
Wow. Just ... wow.
I found your blog through a Friday Feature at Travel Babbles. She featured Punk Rock Mama and she mentioned that you were one of her favorites!
I don't really know what to say about DD other than that it makes me really, really sad.
wow I'm still processing this it's so disturbing!
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